True-believer syndrome

The True-believer syndrome "is not a disorder that is accepted or treated by psychiatrists". Could someone please add '''why'''? Nextel ringtones KF/ 15:52, 4 Feb 2004

:I think it is because the true believer syndrome is just a selective blindness like most people have. It doesn't harm the functioning of the patient. I know, because I used to be a patient myself too. Abbey Diaz Andries/Andries 19:06, 4 Feb 2004


I have rearranged the material in this article because I believe its former sequence carried excessive pro-skeptical POV. This coined term cannot be presented as a generally-accepted objective psychological condition when it's not in the DSM and when psychiatrists generally don't treat it. It originates with Lamar and the skeptics' camp (there is no citation to any other group accepting or using it), and should be labeled as belonging to them. Now, I don't happen to think Jim Jones was doing miracles either, but an objectively-manifesting mental condition like schizophrenia, this thing is not.

By rearranging the article this way, we can also remove the one proffered reason why psychiatrists don't generally treat this suggested condition. This is beneficial because, based on the entries above, it appears we were only conjecturing about that reason, anyway. Free ringtones Gary D/Gary D 04:04, 18 Jun 2004

Removal of sentence
I want to remove the followin subsentence that I find very POV: "and remains a largely rhetorical device used by skeptics in the debate over the existence of certain sorts of paranormal phenomena." I mean, labelling an opionion as a rethorical device is just very POV. Majo Mills Andries/Andries 19:47, 14 Jul 2004

:It remains a 'rhetorical device' because no empirical evidence has been presented for it's link with any demonstrable cognitive or clinical impairment. However, I agree it sounds strong when the point is not explained, I've added the explanation in, rather than using the original phrase - Mosquito ringtone Vaughan/Vaughan 20:24, 14 Jul 2004

::Vaughan, it is not true that there is no empirical evidence. Please read Robert T. Carroll's sekpdic Sabrina Martins Andries/Andries 20:45, 14 Jul 2004

:::The evidence presented there is all anecdotal. I see no scientific studies supporting the assertion that true-believer syndrome is associated with any sort of cognitive pathology, although I would be happy to be corrected - Nextel ringtones Vaughan/Vaughan 21:00, 14 Jul 2004

::::Vaughan, okay, I agree but why is it important that there it is correlated with any sort of cognitive pathology? I never believed it was, as I said above. Secondly, the experiment with the class indicates that it can be developed, almost without interaction with other classmates so the assertion that it is related to socal factors is not relevant. Abbey Diaz Andries/Andries 21:19, 14 Jul 2004

:::::''why is it important that there it is correlated with any sort of cognitive pathology?'' - because it is described as a cognitive disorder.

:::::''the experiment with the class indicates that it can be developed, almost without interaction with other classmates so the assertion that it is related to socal factors is not relevant'' - 'social factors' are not restricted to immediate social interaction, but to the assumptions and status that are associated with certain beliefs by society. A person could form a belief whilst entirely alone, but that belief will still be influenced by the person's social and cultural knowledge and experience. Anyway, this is just my two cents ! - Free ringtones Vaughan/Vaughan 21:41, 14 Jul 2004


::::::Vaughan, thhis article describes the POV of skeptics who think it is a pscychological phenonemon, not a social phenemenon. And then you add your theory that it is a social phenomenon, which I consider by the way very implausible in case of the class experiment. I think that you changed the POV in something that it was not meant to be. Majo Mills Andries/Andries 17:06, 16 Jul 2004

::::::Vaughan, Another thing, do you think that cognitive bias would be a better description than cognitive disorder?Cingular Ringtones Andries/Andries 17:06, 16 Jul 2004

:::::::I don't know about Vaughan, but '''''I''''' certainly do. It's less POV, and actually strengthens the article and defense of the term by getting away from the psychiatric-nontreatment and no-DSM problems. If you'll forgive an ironic observation, it reduces the pseudoscience of appearing to call believers mentally ill absent support from the psychiatric community. I strongly support such a change. from barges Gary D/Gary D 18:28, 16 Jul 2004

:::::::I wrote many articles on cognitive biases here, and I would not call it that. It's basically some term someone invented. I would call the similar http://www.google.com/search?q=%22belief+perseverance%22 a cognitive bias because people who study cognitive biases actually believe there is scientific evidence that it exists. Further, "cognitive disorder" appears to be a neurological term, and there is no reason to believe that it has anything to do with neurology. Finally I see no reason to classify this under where jfk :Tag: logical fallacies since it doesn't have anything to do with specific arguments (besides, it seems to violate the fallacy of month out ad hominem anyway). cedars you Taak/Taak 00:10, 6 Sep 2004

::::::::Taak, I agree with you about the cognitive disorder and it is clearly stated as a disputed opinion of Robert T. Carroll. How would you classify it? offered m Andries/Andries 16:43, 6 Sep 2004

::::::::If anywhere, a category for therefore fully folk psychology theories. florida grapski Taak/Taak 21:40, 9 Sep 2004


galling to Shroud of Turin
I believe the link to this enmtry at midtown robert Shroud of Turin was suppressed. Is this True-believer syndrome in operation? fees whether Wetman/Wetman 21:55, 17 Sep 2004

Edits by Sam Spade, the true believer syndrome refers to the paranormal
Oh, I see the magellan historic True believer refers to this article. That may be wrong. The ''true believer syndrome'' refers only to belief in the paranormal as far as I know. Hence I think Sam's edits are not good. I have to admit that I haven't read professionally and Eric Hoffer's book ''The true believer: the psychology of mass movements''. Does he use the term ''true believer syndrome'' or just ''true believer''? macleod put Andries/Andries 07:10, 24 Nov 2004
:I don't think Hoffer ever said "true believer syndrome." lines fighting Gary D/Gary D 20:12, Nov 24, 2004

The term is widely used, and not just for situations involving belief in the paranormal. I understand the original intent of the term, and I understand how terms evolve. the archies Sam Spade/sweatshops the User:Sam Spade/Sam wife iris User talk:Sam Spade/Spade sevigny and Arbitration Committee Elections December 2004/Arb Com election 20:36, 24 Nov 2004

:Sam, Which term ''true believer syndrome'' or ''cooler jazzier true believer''? ? Personally I prefer to have this article confined to the paranormal but if this is in contrast to common usage then I have no choice, I guess. monitoring trade Andries/Andries 20:50, 24 Nov 2004

:Sam, I did a google search on ''true believer'' and ''true believer syndrome'' and the latter only refers to the paranormal. Andries/Andries 21:04, 24 Nov 2004